karlik · Dec 19, 2009, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Been doing solo at Ft Ranik a lot lately to collect carvings for party and drunk items.

I have offered to take people through the mission (free, not charging 1k like a lot of runners are) and it used to go pretty good. If they want to go afk, no problem. If they want experience, I'll escort and help 'em kill stuff.

At the bonus point (rescue) I go around what people seem to call "the long way" for the extra kills and items.

Lately it's gotten ugly. A level 4 or 5 (etc) decides to take control of the party, call targets, draw directions on the compass/map, run off and attack then run back when he realizes he's alone. Then complain we (I) didn't follow. Always the same thing - "I've done this mission 100's of times, I know where I'm going." "I can solo this with my 20 warrior, I know how to do it right"

My thoughts are - I don't care if your level 20 warrior is a GWAMM, in this party I'm the 20 and you're all a bunch of 4's and 5's. I decide where we go and who we kill.

How do you guys handle this? I got so fed up with a pair of low level warriors who took over (with claims my warrior can pwn your ele) that I used a cupcake to run ahead, got one of the pieces for the trebuchet, loaded up protective spirit and stoneflesh and dropped the piece in the middle of the big group of Charr. I kept PS and stoneflesh up and just stood there waiting for them to come into sight, then told 'em the missing piece you need is here - you 2 are so powerful you should have no trouble coming out here to get it. Have fun." Then I left the game.

Dakka Dakka · Dec 19, 2009, 04:07 PM // 16:07

It has been my experience and personal opinion that the leader in running groups is the runner. At other occasions the leader is the player whose name is at the top of the roster, though they can delegate certain positions, such as calling, to other members of the group.

But............many players don't see it that way for some reason. Here is my suggestion, if members of your group give you guff just map back to town. if you are running for money ask for half of amount upfront and the second half after the successful completion of the run, this way you lose nothing.

Just read what you did to those griefers...................NICE

that is exactly what I would have done :P

Quaker · Dec 19, 2009, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Been there - done that.

Firstly, yes, the leader of the group - the guy who started the group and whose name is at the top of the party box - should be the leader. Sometimes though, the "leader" doesn't know what to do, so someone else may take the lead.

Unfortunately, many players seem to think that there is only one way to do a mission, and they know that one way. These days, too, many people seem to be in a big hurry to get everything done as fast as possible, so they get upset if things don't go as quickly as they like. When you combine these things with an attitude of superiority and/or just plain rudeness, you get the sort of people you are complaining about.

Bottom line is, if you are going to be upset by this sort of behavior, it's best to just solo or h&h. If you PUG, you are bound to run into asshats now and then. Personally, I've played GW so much, that when I PuG these days, it's with the knowledge that this can happen, and I actually think it's kind of funny. I love to crank them up.

Note: @ the asshats. There are often many different ways to do a mission/quest. Several different paths to take, several ways to take out enemies, etc. There may be a "best" way to do something, but usually not - and your way may not be the best. Try to brain up.

Vann Borakul · Dec 19, 2009, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by karlik

Been doing solo at Ft Ranik a lot lately to collect carvings for party and drunk items.

I have offered to take people through the mission (free, not charging 1k like a lot of runners are) and it used to go pretty good. If they want to go afk, no problem. If they want experience, I'll escort and help 'em kill stuff.

At the bonus point (rescue) I go around what people seem to call "the long way" for the extra kills and items.

Lately it's gotten ugly. A level 4 or 5 (etc) decides to take control of the party, call targets, draw directions on the compass/map, run off and attack then run back when he realizes he's alone. Then complain we (I) didn't follow. Always the same thing - "I've done this mission 100's of times, I know where I'm going." "I can solo this with my 20 warrior, I know how to do it right"

My thoughts are - I don't care if your level 20 warrior is a GWAMM, in this party I'm the 20 and you're all a bunch of 4's and 5's. I decide where we go and who we kill.

How do you guys handle this? I got so fed up with a pair of low level warriors who took over (with claims my warrior can pwn your ele) that I used a cupcake to run ahead, got one of the pieces for the trebuchet, loaded up protective spirit and stoneflesh and dropped the piece in the middle of the big group of Charr. I kept PS and stoneflesh up and just stood there waiting for them to come into sight, then told 'em the missing piece you need is here - you 2 are so powerful you should have no trouble coming out here to get it. Have fun." Then I left the game.

It sounds like a case of miscommunication. You are running while you are farming. They are probably expecting you to just run the mission and are unaware of your primary motives. You should make this more clear.

Also, this is a cooperative game. A good leader provides general guidance, serves as the communication nexus for the team, and relegates suggestions and rebuttals. Sometimes there is no leader, most commonly in mission PUGs, and whoever has experience gives guidance (or whoever feels like drawing directions).

In your scenario, you are not really a leader. You are farming with some tag-alongs. Naturally, they are rebutting your method because they think you are uninformed. In your "My thoughts are" section, you describe what is a bad leader. "I'm the strongest/or/most-knowledgeable, do what I say." That can work if you're the only one who knows anything or if there is literally only one efficient method of completing a goal (which doesn't apply to your scenario because you have a simple goal).

Explain your reasoning before you start the mission and all will be well.

You've inspired me to start a project, by the way.

karlik · Dec 19, 2009, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Thx for the feedback. At the time of this post I had just had a frustrating run and needed to vent.

I kind of think if you announce "running mission to farm carvings - tag alongs welcome" it sets the pace and goals, but I will accept that maybe once the mission starts they tend to forget what's going on. It does always seem like their goal is just to do it as fast as possible - even to the extent of leaving eggnog and snowman summoners lay on the ground.

If I was charging I could understand them having certain expectations of what they get for the money, but a free tag along isn't the same, at least imho.

I think perhaps, as Quaker suggested, I may just stick to doing it solo - I get more drops and everyone is less frustrated.

Zodiac Meteor · Dec 19, 2009, 07:45 PM // 19:45

I have this monk saying I was running Stygian Veil to slow, that he can 600 faster.
This area is the biggest area in Domain of Anguish, none of the other area's compare. This this monk will pull big mobs quote "to speed things up." Being the runner and all I made a simple solution to kill him.

"Dude, there is a gemstone drop for you."
"Where?"
"Over there." (Ping on map)
BOOM, monsters pop'ed up and killed him. I left him dead for the entire thing, that includes no Stygian Chest. He can spam in team/all/trade chat all he wants, my heroes rez is canceled for a reason.

Griefers are annoying, but they are rare and more importantly DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT A FREE RUN.

Nijntjuh · Dec 19, 2009, 08:16 PM // 20:16

totally off topic but can you run stygian veil! :O?

Quaker · Dec 20, 2009, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by karlik

I kind of think if you announce "running mission to farm carvings - tag alongs welcome" it sets the pace and goals,

The problem there is that people have different ideas of what "running" means. It sounds as though you simply mean "doing" the mission, while others may think you mean actually "running", as in going fast, taking the shortest quickest path.

JimmyNeutron · Dec 20, 2009, 04:59 PM // 16:59

That is one of the reason why I don't vent. I would vent out my anger and say so many 4 letter words, you'll have to turn the volume down on your speakers.

karlik · Dec 20, 2009, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

The problem there is that people have different ideas of what "running" means. It sounds as though you simply mean "doing" the mission, while others may think you mean actually "running", as in going fast, taking the shortest quickest path.

Can't argue that - except maybe no matter what word you use they "hear" you say run. I've gone from offering to run to offering to help with, to offering to escort, and recently repeating what all the other 20's who are collecting carvings for Wintersday advertise - running to collect carvings, will take tag alongs. Seems like every 2nd or 3rd group has at least one person who wants to set a record for completing the mission.

Yeterday I took a few low levels through - I've started looking at what title they display. If I see a level 4 who shows a very high account title I know they have at least 1 level 20 and I may not be the best person to take them through. If I see someone with no title yet it's probably a noob who just wants help with the mission.

Side note - just learned to ask before we leave "are you working on survivor?" Healer = less drops so I don't normally take one - you die, I resurrect, we continue. Survivors don't like that stratagy.

(I played strictly H/H when I got my survivor title never occurred to me to ask)

karlik · Dec 20, 2009, 06:16 PM // 18:16

I just did a solo run thru Ft Ranik and now I wonder if the fact I'm using a stoneguard is at least part of the problem?

The mission is a small group of 2 - 4 level 6 charr followed by a group of 2 - 4 level 6 charr followed by... yeah, it's pretty much rinse/repeat.

At earth=16 shockwave can take out 2 - 4 level 6 charr about as fast as I can hit "4" on the keyboard. I do watch the compass and try to make sure everyone is close enough enough to get experience, but I'm wondering if killing the first few groups that fast kind sets a false pace and gives the impression I'm in a hurry...?

Dec 19, 2009, 02:57 PM // 14:57	#1
karlik Banned Join Date: Sep 2009	who's leader on runs? Been doing solo at Ft Ranik a lot lately to collect carvings for party and drunk items. I have offered to take people through the mission (free, not charging 1k like a lot of runners are) and it used to go pretty good. If they want to go afk, no problem. If they want experience, I'll escort and help 'em kill stuff. At the bonus point (rescue) I go around what people seem to call "the long way" for the extra kills and items. Lately it's gotten ugly. A level 4 or 5 (etc) decides to take control of the party, call targets, draw directions on the compass/map, run off and attack then run back when he realizes he's alone. Then complain we (I) didn't follow. Always the same thing - "I've done this mission 100's of times, I know where I'm going." "I can solo this with my 20 warrior, I know how to do it right" My thoughts are - I don't care if your level 20 warrior is a GWAMM, in this party I'm the 20 and you're all a bunch of 4's and 5's. I decide where we go and who we kill. How do you guys handle this? I got so fed up with a pair of low level warriors who took over (with claims my warrior can pwn your ele) that I used a cupcake to run ahead, got one of the pieces for the trebuchet, loaded up protective spirit and stoneflesh and dropped the piece in the middle of the big group of Charr. I kept PS and stoneflesh up and just stood there waiting for them to come into sight, then told 'em the missing piece you need is here - you 2 are so powerful you should have no trouble coming out here to get it. Have fun." Then I left the game.

Dec 19, 2009, 04:07 PM // 16:07	#2
Dakka Dakka Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Feb 2009 Guild: Highly Innapropriate [HI] Profession: W/Mo	It has been my experience and personal opinion that the leader in running groups is the runner. At other occasions the leader is the player whose name is at the top of the roster, though they can delegate certain positions, such as calling, to other members of the group. But............many players don't see it that way for some reason. Here is my suggestion, if members of your group give you guff just map back to town. if you are running for money ask for half of amount upfront and the second half after the successful completion of the run, this way you lose nothing. Just read what you did to those griefers...................NICE that is exactly what I would have done :P Last edited by Dakka Dakka; Dec 19, 2009 at 04:09 PM // 16:09..

Dec 19, 2009, 04:26 PM // 16:26	#3
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	Been there - done that. Firstly, yes, the leader of the group - the guy who started the group and whose name is at the top of the party box - should be the leader. Sometimes though, the "leader" doesn't know what to do, so someone else may take the lead. Unfortunately, many players seem to think that there is only one way to do a mission, and they know that one way. These days, too, many people seem to be in a big hurry to get everything done as fast as possible, so they get upset if things don't go as quickly as they like. When you combine these things with an attitude of superiority and/or just plain rudeness, you get the sort of people you are complaining about. Bottom line is, if you are going to be upset by this sort of behavior, it's best to just solo or h&h. If you PUG, you are bound to run into asshats now and then. Personally, I've played GW so much, that when I PuG these days, it's with the knowledge that this can happen, and I actually think it's kind of funny. I love to crank them up. Note: @ the asshats. There are often many different ways to do a mission/quest. Several different paths to take, several ways to take out enemies, etc. There may be a "best" way to do something, but usually not - and your way may not be the best. Try to brain up.

Dec 19, 2009, 06:38 PM // 18:38	#5
karlik Banned Join Date: Sep 2009	Thx for the feedback. At the time of this post I had just had a frustrating run and needed to vent. I kind of think if you announce "running mission to farm carvings - tag alongs welcome" it sets the pace and goals, but I will accept that maybe once the mission starts they tend to forget what's going on. It does always seem like their goal is just to do it as fast as possible - even to the extent of leaving eggnog and snowman summoners lay on the ground. If I was charging I could understand them having certain expectations of what they get for the money, but a free tag along isn't the same, at least imho. I think perhaps, as Quaker suggested, I may just stick to doing it solo - I get more drops and everyone is less frustrated.

Dec 19, 2009, 07:45 PM // 19:45	#6
Zodiac Meteor Imma Firin Mah Rojway! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: At the Mac Store laughing at people that walk out with anything. Profession: E/Mo	I have this monk saying I was running Stygian Veil to slow, that he can 600 faster. This area is the biggest area in Domain of Anguish, none of the other area's compare. This this monk will pull big mobs quote "to speed things up." Being the runner and all I made a simple solution to kill him. "Dude, there is a gemstone drop for you." "Where?" "Over there." (Ping on map) BOOM, monsters pop'ed up and killed him. I left him dead for the entire thing, that includes no Stygian Chest. He can spam in team/all/trade chat all he wants, my heroes rez is canceled for a reason. Griefers are annoying, but they are rare and more importantly DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT A FREE RUN.

Dec 19, 2009, 08:16 PM // 20:16	#7
Nijntjuh Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: mcdonalds @ kaineng Guild: Mirror Of Reason [SNOW] Profession: D/	totally off topic but can you run stygian veil! :O?

Dec 20, 2009, 04:59 PM // 16:59	#9
JimmyNeutron Krytan Explorer Join Date: Sep 2007	That is one of the reason why I don't vent. I would vent out my anger and say so many 4 letter words, you'll have to turn the volume down on your speakers.

Dec 20, 2009, 06:16 PM // 18:16	#11
karlik Banned Join Date: Sep 2009	I just did a solo run thru Ft Ranik and now I wonder if the fact I'm using a stoneguard is at least part of the problem? The mission is a small group of 2 - 4 level 6 charr followed by a group of 2 - 4 level 6 charr followed by... yeah, it's pretty much rinse/repeat. At earth=16 shockwave can take out 2 - 4 level 6 charr about as fast as I can hit "4" on the keyboard. I do watch the compass and try to make sure everyone is close enough enough to get experience, but I'm wondering if killing the first few groups that fast kind sets a false pace and gives the impression I'm in a hurry...?